How long have you been a B7 fan? There's a lot of subtext in the program you might miss the first time around. It certainly gives one a lot to think about, especially if you've had 25 years to think about it.

I think Cally was able to read Avon even back on the Liberator and he was able to read her to a certain degree too. I'd wager that she was the one he trusted the most. I can see him revealing his inner thoughts to her if he was assured that she would not give his confidence away to the others. She never did in the past. Sometimes, it seemed like she could read his mind at least on an empathic level. Recall the story Hostage. She knows why Avon is going down to Exbar to save Blake.

I'd bet that Avon is afraid to trust people, that once upon a time he did and he was screwed over royally, not counting Anna Grant. However, he always seemed to trust the Liberator/Scorpio crews in varying degrees. Probably Cally the most.

Cally has never played games with him and has never tried to manipulate him. Even though Blake might have done it just to elicit help from him, if you've been manipulated by people most of your life it can make you paranoid.

Paranoia and what Tarrant told him (he sold all of us, even you) and Blake's poor choice of words is what led to Blake's death.
If Cally had been on GP, Blake probably would not have been shot by Avon. Of course they were about to be overrun by Fed troops, but at least Avon would not have been the one to shoot. Cally would have stopped both of them from being stupid.

Also, I'm assuming you are aware of what is called Post Guada Prime syndrome? Many of us have been suffering from it for about 25 years. For me, it's not so much the struggle against the Federation that was important, but the struggle for the main characters to rediscover their humanity. The Liberator and Scorpio crews were important to us. So while it would be unrealistic to have all of them survive the GP nightmare, it's nice to read a story where some of them made it at least.

It's nice that Jenna is alive. However, she could be even less trusting than Avon. She got disgusted with Blake from time to time as well. If Jenna had been on GP and had thought that Blake had sold her and the rest of them, I could see her pulling the trigger as well. Maybe some self reflection on her part would help character growth. Perhaps if she put herself in Avon's shoes?

The only one who was a real rebel from the start (besides Blake) was Cally. The rest of them follow (even Avon) because they believe in Blake and each of them loved Blake in their own way. Although I always wondered why Avon used the words, "I was trying to undermine the confidence of the Federation banking system," rather that call it embezzlement. I always found that statement rather curious. No wonder they thought he was political. Maybe he was subconsciously. And Jenna wanted to be called a "free trader" and not a smuggler.

After Terminal and Cally's death, Avon seemed to go mad, didn't he? I think he is then fueled by a desire to get even and destroy the Federation. Maybe not for "the Cause" but for Blake and Cally, for revenge.

So he has Cally back now, in this story. Cally who never messed with his feelings. She certainly hasn't done a number on him in this story like Servalan has. So, would be totally realistic if he would open up to Cally, even just a little. Maybe Avon feels so guilty that he can't let himself be happy?
Also, what's up with his knee? If it's in earlier stories, I can't find it. I take it it's some sort of transmitter? It causes him pain. Does he put up with it out of some sense of atonement for Blake's death?

Sester's character is very interesting. If he gets the better of Servalan that would be awesome. Someone needs to make that witch pay.
However, Argus and Reya's love chats are hard to sit through. My mind keeps wandering back to the original bunch that I care about. Jenna, Avon, Cally, and Vila.

How long have you been a B7 fan?

hmmm let me see *looks at calendar* since April of this year so that would be 7 months ;)

I think Cally was able to read Avon...Cally has never played games with him

Yes I do get this =) that is why I brought Cally back. It will be something interesting to explore as the stories progress. Even though the two of them do have this possibility, I don't think it ever will be easy for Avon to get to the point where he will talk on this level with her. It's just not something he does or feels any reason for doing. It has to be the right circumstance for him in order to do this. I am trying to move him to this point in the story.

If Cally had been on GP, Blake probably would not have been shot by Avon.

I think you're right. She seemed to have more sense than most of them and would not have allowed the stupidity, which I hope I'm showing by some of the comments she makes to Avon during this story.

Paranoia and what Tarrant told him (he sold all of us, even you) and Blake's poor choice of words

Yes I totally agree. You can see my view of these events in my replies to shimere277's Fanon
post.

For me, it's not so much the struggle against the Federation that was important, but the struggle for the main characters to rediscover their humanity.

That's a nice way to put it.

It's nice that Jenna is alive...Maybe some self reflection on her part

Yes, definitely. I will get around to this eventually. But it's always good to have conflict among the main characters on the ship. It makes things more interesting.

Also, what's up with his knee?

This comes about in the 4th story. There is an implant in it which Servalan had put in which causes him pain. Though why he won't tell Cally or anyone else (Argus is the only one who knows), well....there is a reason.

Also, on another note, if Reya dies trying to save Argus's life or something, I could see Argus and Jenna pairing up. Blake was a neat guy, but Argus seems to have more common sense. This would then put the focus back on the original cast....However, Argus and Reya's love chats are hard to sit through. My mind keeps wondering back to the original bunch that I care about. Jenna, Avon, Cally, and Vila.

I do understand that. Though I get both opinions about Argus and Reya's relationship. Some accept that if they treat these stories as a continuation of S4 (a S5 as it were) then we do need new main characters to replace the ones who are gone (as they did with Dayna,Soolin and Tarrant). Others are focussed only on the old characters. I do understand both sides and I do try to balance the action between all the characters.

In terms of Reya "joining the regular cast" so to speak, actually she wasn't supposed to go beyond the story which introduced her and she was never supposed to have a close relationship with any of the main characters, but for some reason, Argus fell for her and refuses to let her go. At the moment he is too focused on her but once their relationship settles down and they begin to interact more with the rest of the crew apart from each other, it will be better.

Sester's character is very interesting.

Yes, I like him too. Originally I was going to kill him off at the end of the last series (with his last act as releasing Avon) but I do like his character so decided to keep him.


Edited at 2007-11-12 07:29 am (UTC)

I think you sent this comment twice...or you edited it and resent? Though it only appears in the list once. But I got two email notices.

Yes, I edited it and then resent it. I'm particular about my own spelling and while I corrected one of my errors I ended up changing some of the other things I posted as other thoughts popped into my head. Your story is one of the best post GP stories I have read in a long time.

Thanks. And thank you for all your valuable comments/insights. It is much appreciated. I will definitely keep your suggestions in mind.

I'm trying to "see" Argus and Reya in my mind's eye and it is difficult. I don't know if it's a case of too many characters or being stuck on the old crew. However, I can see Sester.
Plus, knowing the original crew, Jenna in particular, I'm surprised she let's Argus take control. Cally would be a better choice, as you say, she has the most sense.
However, with Avon and Cally, Avon doesn't necessarily need to use words to open up to her. She could always seemed able to read him on some level. Better than she could read any of the others I'd wager.
Avon somehow must give off something that Cally can read. She seems to pick up what he's up to in the episode Hostage.
And they always stood up for each other too. Sarcophagus is a good example. I think he suspected (just like Tarrant did) that Cally was somehow affected by that alien ship. However, he wasn't going to let Tarrant bully her. So, there's at least been some modicum of emotional trust between them.

This deal with Avon's knee, you say it's in the 4th story? So is this something you've already written? If so, could you tell me what chapter it is please?

You're doing a good job for someone who only discovered Blakes 7 in April. I discovered it over 20 years ago, when PBS finally aired it. I'd left it behind for years, but got back into it, when the new Doctor Who series seemed to be lacking. Peter Tuddenham's death came as a huge blow.

So, if you want any thoughts from this corner, all you have to do is ask.
I recall seeing Avon emotionally vulnerable before. In Rumours of Death everyone saw his emotions laid bare save Vila who was back on the Liberator. Avon didn't seem to care who observed him then, but he was feeling a bit suicidal. Yes, he seemed to go off by himself after slugging the drink Vila gave him. However, it was the end of the episode too. So who knows went on behind the scenes. They all knew he was hurting, what else was there to say? None of the crew ever seemed to cry in front of each other.
Blake had trouble with the same thing. He had to go and be alone for awhile too after Gan's death and have discussions with that philosophic flea.

Maybe what Avon needs is his own philosophic flea...just kidding.

It may be that it is easier to "see" Sester because he relates alot with Avon and Servalan who are from the original series.

As for Argus and Reya, it may be easier to "see" them as they begin interacting more with the other members of the crew; and we see how the crew reacts to/views each of them separately and as a couple. I have not done that yet because these two are so stuck on each other at the moment.

Jenna in particular, I'm surprised she let's Argus take control
Argus is a gifted natural leader. None of the others are, including Avon. From the first story, we can see that Jenna has worked with Argus before and they share a history together. Before the first story, she already accepted Argus as the leader of the rebel group they were part of. She actually refers to this a little in a conversation with Olean Rane near the beginning of the fifth story (I think in Chapter 3). And you see him in action in story 6 and 7; though the action is with Reya and Borel's groups.

As for Avon's emotions laid bare. I don't think he cared whether others saw his emotions or not during Rumours. But I doubt that he saw it necessary to be talk about those feelings with anyone. He probably only told them enough facts so that they would help him.

I am at work right now ;) so I can't look for the knee reference but I will do another reply later for it.

So, if you want any thoughts from this corner, all you have to do is ask.
Great. Thanks for the offer. There are a couple of wonderful people I already have for reference and I will gladly add you to that list.

knee...what chapter
It is in the 4th story. At the beginning of chapter 10.

I will read that chapter. In your stories, did Jenna and Blake ever have a fling and if so, did Blake and Jenna break up? I ask because if Jenna was alive when GP transpired, had she left Blake to follow Argus? Had Blake sent her to help Argus?
Argus may be a natural leader, but Jenna was never quite a docile follower, even with Blake. If she thought Blake's plan was crazy, she'd say so. Even if she followed along in the end.

Pressure Point comes to mind, by then, even Gan wasn't willing to throw his life away in a half baked attempt to take out Central Control. Jenna flat out tells Blake his plan is crazy, if you recall.
I think Avon was better at being the scientist, the expert the leader might need to call upon. Better at being Blake's shadow, his advisor. He did lack Blake's charisma.
Poor Blake, he might have been better suited at being a politician rather than a rebel leader. He had the rhetoric but sometimes his leadership skills were lacking as well. Avon always seemed better at plotting battle strategy and Blake better and persuading the rabble. Cally seemed best at making Avon and Blake see sense and Vila best at acting the fool to provide distractions when they argued.
Jenna, well sometimes Jenna seemed to start more trouble than discourage it. Unlike Cally, who tries to put out fires, Jenna sparks fires. She sometimes seemed to disagree or criticize Avon just for the sake of it. At least that is how she is viewed by the fans in this house.
We think she is partly responsible for setting Avon off in Star One, with her comment, "Very stirring of you, when did you become a believer?"
Who cares if he is a believer or not? Avon knows that Blake is determined to destroy Star One no matter what the others think, so why not just get on with it?
And even Jenna doesn't seem to be very willing to fight off the Andromedan fleet, she has to nastily inquire, "Why Avon?" Like that's the time to get into a spat, with an alien fleet rapidly approaching.
I wonder if Jenna's reluctance in trusting Avon has to do with seeing similar traits in Avon that she doesn't like about herself.

In your stories, did Jenna and Blake ever have a fling and if so, did Blake and Jenna break up? I ask because if Jenna was alive when GP transpired, had she left Blake to follow Argus? Had Blake sent her to help Argus?

I have not dealt in detail with what happened to Jenna after Star One. That will come in a later story when I finally focus on Jenna. The other reference I mentioned (story 5, ch 3) does give you a little indication of Jenna's relationship with both Blake and Argus.

Jenna did know and work with Argus and his rebel group occasionally, before Blake sent her out to liase with the rebels building a base in Sector Ten (Argus was not one of those). She chose to join his group after Blake died.

The reason she joined him was because, though Blake was the charismatic rebel leader who could rally the masses, Argus was more effective in terms of getting the job done. As you had pointed out in the post you deleted (I still got a copy of it in an email notification) Argus has more common sense than Blake, and he is definitely the better and more experienced leader. Though Blake was good at gathering the masses, he kept getting his followers killed because he had no practical idea what to do with them. By GP, you can see that Blake has gone through alot, and most likely alot of it was not good.

Blake had the charisma and the daring to be a leader; he did not have the practical experience. On GP, you can see Deva is getting frustrated with how Blake has chosen to handle things there. They set everything up for him to lead but instead he chose to play loyalty games, which eventually led up to the final tragedy. In the episode where they accidentally left Cally behind and did not realize it until it was too late, Argus would never have made that mistake.

Yes, Jenna always seems to be very cynical with Avon during the series. Perhaps she never forgave him for what happened in Spacefall. You may be right that, in Avon, she sees the parts of herself she does not like (a little case of transference of guilt?). Even after all he does for them and saves their lives several times over, she never trusts his intentions. And in Spacefall she had nearly given in to her own weakness and abandoned Blake on CA because of Avon. And definitely in Star One, she has given into those weaknesses again whereas it is Avon who choses to stay and fight, because of Blake. That last exchange between them is very interesting.

You said, " I discovered it over 20 years ago... I'd left it behind for years, but got back into it..."
So did I: I was a fan 1987?-1993? or less, then left because PGP stories never dealt in depth with Avon or had Avon change: of the three instances I know or read of in which someone killed another after a bad interpretation, the three changed permanently. In starting to return a friend's fanzines in March, 2007, I reread "Mind of a Man is a Double Edged Sword," then some fanzines called Fifth Season, and got re-addicted. I am trying to figure out why. If Paul Darrow had played Blake or Vila, would I/fans be in love with Blake or Vila instead? or if Gareth Thomas or Michael Keating had played Avon, would I/fans still be in love with Avon? Is it just Paul Darrow's beauty? Is it Paul Darrow's trick of wearing black in a color show on purpose to get attention? Is it the quiet classmate's/employee's vengeful glee when the little boy sasses the teacher/employee bawls out the stupid boss? PGP syndrome: why does the last episode always hurt after the last word in a PGP story? Am I/are fans obsessed over the loyalty thing? Is there a discussion board for this? Thanks.

Just when you think things can't get worse....
Damn I was going to be good and go to bed after readingthis page but now I have to stay and find out what the "thunk" was!